Criminal psychologist in Leeds recalls chilling details from conversations with UK's most notorious killers

Criminal psychologist Linda Sage spent four decades sitting across from the likes of Myra Hindley, Ian Brady and Dennis Nilsen.

The 68-year-old has conducted extensive interviews and assessments of offenders in an attempt to uncover what motivates their behaviour. Her insights have aided law enforcement and legal teams, and she has provided expert analysis and testimony in complex criminal investigations and trials.

Linda said that she learned quickly not to share personal details with the prisoners inhabiting the violent jails where she worked.

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“You can never forget what they did,” she explained. “Mentally, it’s always there. They can be genial, but you can never forget. Because the moment you drop your guard, you’re vulnerable.”

“These people are manipulative and will look for a relationship. If they have that, they have an advantage.”

At an upcoming talk in Seacroft, Linda will share some of the professional insights and psychiatric evaluations that made up her daily workload.

She was based in top category jails, which meant violent, longer-term prisoners. However, her days were largely varied – and no two inmates were the same.

Linda said: “I always get asked whether it was intimidating. To be honest, you don’t think of it like that. At first, I think I was too naïve to think about risks. I was still studying. But I’ve been lucky that, generally, it hasn’t kicked off.”

She recalled: “Myra Hindley was incredibly manipulative within the prison system. She would try to dominate the conversation and, if there was something she didn’t want to talk about, she would just change the subject.

“There would be questions about me and my life. But a simple question like ‘what car do you drive?’ can tell them everything. You couldn’t tell them the truth – and I still don’t put any information on social media. You don’t know who’s reading it.”

On a day-to-day basis, Linda could be dealing with incidents that had played out in the jails overnight, holding behaviour workshops, or preparing reports for trials and sentencings.

In the later years of her career, she was based at HM Prison Leeds, in Armley, a Category B jail, and HM Prison Wakefield, which is a Category A jail and has been nicknamed “Monster Mansion” as a result of the high-profile offenders kept there.

Linda explained that, although Category A jails housed the worst offenders, she always found Category B prisons to be more volatile.

Remembering some of the most well-known criminals, she said: “When I met the Kray twins, they were fairly older men. The first thing I noticed was their deference. They would pull a chair out for you when you arrived, for example.

“Myra Hindley could sometimes be totally engaging, but at other times she would just give monotone answers.

“Dennis Nilsen was quite shy and retiring. And, for want of a better word, he could be very bitchy. He would get in a strop and pout if he felt he wasn’t being listened to.

“That was quite common in prisons, because little things can feel very big. I’ve seen two prisoners get into fisticuffs over a packet of really cheap, nasty biscuits. The small things become elevated.”

Linda, originally from Medway in Kent, explained that she learned to compartmentalise, so that she would not take the experiences home with her.

“My safe space was always my car,” she said. “I would listen to music to switch off. And the first thing I would do when I got home was change my clothes.”

Now, Linda spends her time campaigning against domestic abuse and stalking, as well as working in radio.

Her talk, at Chapel FM Arts Centre on March 17, will explore what makes a serial killer, as well as debunking some myths about psychopaths. Doors will open at 1.30pm and tickets are available via Linda’s website.